Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Insight podcast. Today we have Kevin Wayne Johnson who's going to share with us plenty of leadership insights and wisdom over his career. Really looking forward to working this podcast with him today because he is a gentleman that's written 24 books. Whether he authored or co-authored them, he has a tremendous amount of insights and wisdom to be able to share. Kevin Wayne Johnson, please welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

Thank you, Chad. Thank you so much for the invitation. Glad to be with you.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

So when I had a chance to be able to see what you do and how you do it, you have a really tremendous history.

A 34-Year Federal Leadership Path

SPEAKER_00 0:44

And if we could just spend a couple minutes just talking about the fact that you had a really beautiful career working with the government and even getting the title at one point of Chief of Staff.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Yeah, absolutely. So it was my mother who recommended right after I graduated from college, Virginia Commonwealth University in my hometown of Richmond, Virginia. I wasn't quite sure what to do. Not unusual for a new 21, 22-year-old recent graduate. I thought it would be easy. It was not a very easy journey. And she recommended that I try the federal government. So right there in Richmond, I interviewed in front of a panel of three. And they also gave me a selection of 10 different career fields, none of which I was familiar with. It just so happened that I selected acquisition management, contracting, and procurement, because at that time the field was not professionalized, and they were looking for a next generation of professionals to come into the workplace right out of college and to kind of help to reinvigorate that particular field and to make it more professional, everything that we did. I raised my hand and said, yes, next thing I know, Chad, 34 years went by and it was time to retire. So my first 25 years with the federal government, I was the guy, along with my colleagues, that was responsible for buying all the goods and services that the federal government needed to meet its mission and its vision. Department of Defense and the Department of Treasury is where I spent my time. After my first 25 years, I sort of matriculated into another area just out of curiosity, and I did a lot of support for our military across the globe. Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, and Coast Guard. I worked very, very closely. As a matter of fact, I was on the senior leadership team that stood up the United States Cyber Command and Fort Meade, Maryland. And then just before I retired, I moved into a chief of staff role. Very interesting, very insightful. Once I got into the role, I really understood what it is to be a chief of staff. And it's really a chief of stuff. It's all the stuff that no one else wants to be bothered with. And that's what made it fun because if I didn't have the answer, I had to dig deep and find the answer. And that's what made it so very interesting. So it was a 34-year career. I'm glad. Lots of great men and women poured into me, helped to prepare me and develop me to and mold me into the person that ultimately I became.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

So, so you are from talking with you just tremendous. I'm just a really big fan. When did you learn about leadership? Right. So you could either be a follower or you could be a leader. You've mastered the insights to leadership. When did that start for you?

SPEAKER_01 3:34

It

Leadership Lessons From Family Care

SPEAKER_01 3:35

actually, Chad, started in my home. I don't have any sisters. I have just one brother. He's three and a half years younger than I am, and he was born into the world with a mental disability. My dad is a U.S. Marine, so he was on the front line fighting in America's wars. He was often away, Vietnam twice, Okinawa, Japan once. I found myself as a young boy at home helping my mom to raise my mentally challenged brother who couldn't really fend for himself because of the neurological abnormalities that were going on in his body. So I learned about respect and value and care and love, how to fight for, how to negotiate on his behalf. I learned that very, very early through elementary school, through middle school, and through high school, and then on to college. Interestingly enough, I was able to take what I learned into the workplace and apply it there as well. And so ultimately I met a young lady. We began to date, we fell in love, we got married, and from our union, we had three sons, no daughters. And the youngest son, when he came around, he didn't talk, he didn't say a word for his first two years. He did everything else toddlers do, laugh and cry and ride, ride in the wagon and swing on the swing set, but he'd never talked, and we knew something wasn't quite right. And we'd had him tested, and he it was revealed that he was autistic. And so here we go again. You know, watch French and repeat what I learned at home helping to raise my brother. I can now apply as a father to his son. Again, using the same strategies, the same principles in the workplace, caring for, valuing, respecting and honoring others, but also demonstrating some compassion and empathy along the way because everybody is different. And that's what I brought to the workplace, and that's what I taught people by example. And that's what I do now in this season of my life. That's what I do. 99% of my waking hours is pouring into leaders, helping them to really understand what leadership is all about.

Know Better Do Better Lead Better

SPEAKER_00 5:49

And so one of these quotes that you like is know better, do better, and lead better. So, so there's a lot, I believe, negativity and compression of people's personalities and wisdom being pushed down. You have a tendency to want to just make everybody bigger, stronger, and do better. How do you come across this as being one of your favorite quotes?

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Well, first and foremost, leaders are learners. You and I will never get to a place where we know it all. And we shouldn't. So we should always be inquisitive and we should always be curious to learn. We're constantly in a state where we're shifting. Our nation has shifted from being agricultural to then industrial. And since the early to mid-80s, technology and technology is still evolving. Now we're trying to learn AI. So leaders are learners, but it's it's more than just learning the theory and the methodology and the principles. Now we have to apply. So we have to do better. Once we know better, let's do better. Let's apply it. Let's have a call to action and that's implement and execute based on what we now know. So that when it's all said and done, we are better leaders. We are leading better because it's not just what we know, it's not just our subject matter expertise, but it's about taking care of people who we expect to get the work done. And that's the part that's typically missing in organizations and in teams and in leaders. And that's the insight that I provide just for a heightened level of awareness around what leadership is all about.

Starting Johnson Leadership Group

SPEAKER_00 7:34

So if someone goes out and finds you at the Johnson Leadership Group, how many years ago did you found this organization? And what kind of people do you like to work with? And and I'll leave it at that.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

Yeah, that's a great question, Chad. So after my 34-year career, that ended eight years ago. So I retired in 2017, October. So this is my eighth year, and I stood up my company eight years ago. So we just celebrated in March of this year, eight years. And we're we're deep into the marketplace because that's where people are. So we we support government agencies, city, county, state, and federal. We support corporations, primarily small to mid-size. We don't really work much with the big the big corporations. We work with churches and other faith-based organizations. We work with nonprofits. Very interesting. And we also work in the academic space, colleges and universities, also into high schools and some middle schools as well, because that's where people are. When you when you take when you talk to people, whether it's the financial industry, automotive industry, technology industry, I could go on and on and on. Generally speaking, people are in one of those five venues where they work every day. And so that's where we reach them. And whether they are an aspiring leader, aspiring to be a leader, a frontline leader, maybe one to five years of experience, a mid-level leader, probably six to fifteen years of experience, and then a senior leader, probably 16 plus years of experience. There's something in each of those different categories for people to learn.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

So let's get real about leadership.

Nonprofit Influence And Fundraising Reality

SPEAKER_00 9:22

Let's get real. So you had made a comment about the nonprofit space.

SPEAKER_01 9:27

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

So what are your thoughts around leaders in the nonprofit space? Nonprofit space, both where they have to fundraise for their nonprofit, or that they just work for a nonprofit that's considered a business.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

Like they have to use much more than other leaders. They have to use more of their influence because of the customer base, because of the stakeholders, because of the legislative process, because they have to be intelligent and astute and on their game to raise money to align with their mission and vision and core values. And so they have to be much more influential as a part of their leadership style to get people to understand why they exist and to be able to generate the type of revenue that comes in from donors for the most part, and to be able to align with the state legislator and the federal legislation that's coming from Capitol Hill, that's always evolving and it's always changing. It changes with every election, every midterm and every national election, as a new governor comes in, a new county executive, a new city administrator, a new senator, a new representative, as they come in, things change. And these leaders and the nonprofits have to be on their game to be able to pivot and flex and to meet the game that's in front of them. So it's not so much so in the other venues, but in the nonprofit space, using their influence as a leadership style is very, very key.

Why Micromanagement Breaks Trust

SPEAKER_00 11:06

So there's some leaders out there that are micromanagers, and there's some that are macro. In the nonprofit space, uh oh, in the nonprofit space, right? What are you doing to help people overcome what I consider to be unhealthy? Micromanaging to me as a leader. Number one, I feel it's unhealthy for the leader because how do you enjoy your life if you always have to worry about the people that you're leading getting their work done?

SPEAKER_01 11:37

I totally agree, Chad. That's why I'm nodding my head north and south. Unbeknownst to many leaders, and we always hope they get it when we teach it. You are sending a subliminal message to your people that I don't trust you, you don't have what it takes to get it done, I have to keep my eye on you, and I have doubts that you're the right person for this role. It's probably not their intent, but that's the subliminal message that you send anytime you micromanage anybody. And that person more than likely will vote with their feet. And what I mean by that, they'll leave, they'll leave the organization. Because when you hire someone into your organization, you're leading them to believe that you trust them, that they're the best fit for that work role and for the organization. And then when they come in and they get past orientation with HR, and you immediately start to look over their shoulder and constantly ask them questions, it goes against why they thought they were hired in the first place. So it's a bad thing. Bad thing.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

So is there a book out there? I mean, you wrote 24 books or co-authored 24 books. Is there a book specific on how to torture people or how to lead with a smile on your face?

SPEAKER_01 13:02

I'm

Leading With A Servant’s Heart

SPEAKER_01 13:03

a firm believer in the latter there, Chad. That's why I currently author the series Leadership with a Servant's Heart. I believe that when we lead from the heart as well as from the mind, where there's a perfect alignment, we are at our best. And the people that we are entrusted to lead are at their best as well. So leading from the heart gets more into a lot of the emotions and the characteristics that I talked about earlier: value, care, respect, honor, empathy, and compassion for people, having patience with people, but also the mind is where we gain the credibility, being subject matter experts, showing up with the acumen and intelligence that people expect us to have. Where those two align, we're at our best, we'll have dynamic teams, we'll have a dynamic organization.

SPEAKER_00 13:57

So you also said one of the first categories you said was the government.

Leading Inside Government Bureaucracy

SPEAKER_00 14:05

But if leaders and government are passive, because government operations, like the way people think about government, right, is it's big, it's ungodly in the size and what people do. So how is it that people could lead when you're dealing with such a large bureaucracy? And no matter who you are as a leader, there's always people above you, very often, I'm guessing, with different leadership styles than how you lead. So what if you go through and manage and train leaders in such a large bureaucracy?

SPEAKER_01 14:38

Yeah, it starts, Chad, with really just helping them all to understand the environment that they're in. As you know, and as many of your listeners and viewers know, in the corporate setting, it's about generating revenue for that company. In the nonprofit sector, it's about being able to convince donors to contribute to the cause of the organization. On the government side, it's about compliance. If you work for the county government, you are complying with the executive orders from your county executive. If you work for the federal government, we are there to comply with the executive orders that come down from the president of the United States, ultimately to our department, whether it's justice or interior or defense. I mean, I could go on and on, Department of Homeland Security, I could go on and on and on. It filters down to that particular federal government agency. And our job is to comply with these orders and these directives and these executive decisions that are coming in. So it's a different model, it's a different mission and vision. And if we understand that, then as a leader, we help all of our teams understand how their work now feeds into the mission and vision of the agency that we're working for or the department that we're working for. That's the leadership piece that we really, really encourage our senior leaders on the federal government side, state government, county government, and city government to really understand. People want to show up every day and do a good job, but they also want to know that what they're doing is contributing to why this agency exists. So we just need to do a better job of communicating that.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

So, how many people are in your group? It sounds like you must have a lot of people that you're the leader of in the in the Johnson leadership group.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

Yeah, we have partnerships galore, but in terms of the men and women that I actually trust who are certified trainers and certified coaches, there's a team of about 10 or 11 of us that are really are really in at the root of getting the work done. But we have partnerships across the globe that we partner with on a number of different initiatives.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

So

A Coaching Story That Shifts Culture

SPEAKER_00 16:58

give me an example of you come into a company, give me the horror story of the leader that is just messing up a beautifully massive organization that as soon as you're done helping them see the light, everything shifted. Can you share with me a story about how that might have felt and looked so that people could hear what real life is about?

SPEAKER_01 17:24

Yeah, absolutely. So there was a recent financial institution that brought me in for both executive coaching as well as leadership development training. And I had gotten the scoop from some of the leaders around the style of one of the senior leaders that was there. And without me ever calling names or even looking in a certain direction, my approach is to engage with these leaders and an interactive and engaging conversation around three things. Number one, personal and professional growth. Are we growing and are we helping our people grow? Number two, influence. Are you using your influence to make a positive impact into others? And then number three, how are you communicating? Are you telling people what to do? Are you mandating, dictating, threatening? Or are you having a conversation that's mutual and also actively listening to what's being said? By the time, Chad, we unpack each of those three different areas, I am now getting eye-opening looks to say, I never thought about it that way. And I'm saying to myself, I know that's why you brought me in. Because this is how people feel when you use this type of a leadership style. And this is how people feel when you use this leadership style. And you want your people to feel good about what they do, you want them to represent the organization well, and you want them to leave every day feeling that they've made a great contribution to the mission and vision of the organization. So, in order to make that happen, we need to lead this way. And what it does, it breaks down the barriers. We're getting people to connect, we're getting people to understand that their style probably is not the best, the most conducive for this particular time without calling names, without looking at one particular person and kind of calling them out, but having a conversation such that everybody can feel comfortable and adding his or her thoughts so we can move forward and not backwards.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

Unbelievable, right? We all we all have that.

Jealousy Comparison And Personal Growth

SPEAKER_00 19:51

And and then what about this thing called jealousy? How do you manage I'll let you laugh there? That was a good chuckle. How do we manage the idea around this thing of jealousy? Or, you know, in my case, I had a nonprofit, and I felt strongly that some of the board members wanted to have my position as president. And I know because one in particular said, I want to be co-president. And I said, I run a small little charity. I don't need two presidents, and they went up and created their own charity where he's now president. How do you manage and what do you think about this whole world of jealousy?

SPEAKER_01 20:25

Yeah, the reason that I chuckle, Chad, is because we all have to recognize and acknowledge that it's part of human behavior. We we spend our lives from the time that we're children even into our adulthood looking at others in terms of how well they are doing, or at least perceived how well they're doing. And we have a conversation with self to say, you know what, I I I wish I was there. I need to get there. And I'm not quite there yet. So I'm jealous. It's part of human behavior. That's part of the conversation that we have, and trying to get people to not be too wrapped up in comparing ourselves with others because you're gonna always find out. It doesn't matter if you're a singer, an actor, an athlete, a tenured professor at an Ivy League school, there's always somebody doing it better than you. Always. And so you just have to acknowledge that, listen, it's a good thing to surround yourself with people who are smarter than you. If you're the smartest person in the room, you need to get out of the room. You need to learn and grow and develop. It's a hard lesson because it's just part of who we are as humans. But the the lesson that I share with others is that listen, the reality of the matter is there's always going to be someone who does it just a little bit better than you. You know, there there's another writer out there who writes better than me, speaker out there that speaks better than me. I just do the best I can with the gifts that I have. And I try to keep people focused on who they are and tap into their own potential and don't try to be somebody else. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

So what I try to do is I try to not have jealousy. And I'm pretty good at it, I think, because what I find is I embrace the greatness upon which I see them doing. And I congratulate and I acknowledge the fact that what they're doing is pretty cool. And in my first book, it was the power of people tizing, thoughtful, caring, sharing, and mentoring is what it's about. But the mentoring part is that if you have ego or attitude, then mentor someone for them to be better. And so if you're better than me and you're more successful, uh, quote unquote, whatever that means, I'll acknowledge and then let you mentor and guide me so that I could become better myself. The other thing I focus on, I think you'd be too when you could talk on this, is in my abundant life roadmap, which is a plan to be able to get you where you want to go. In the abundant life roadmap, I I focus on values, I focus on goals, and I focus on Dan Sullivan's DOS question, which is looking back three years from now, what has to happen so you feel success or happy with the work that you've done? And so maybe you could talk about that for a minute.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

Yeah, it's uh it's a great conversation to have. And I do believe that the more we have it, the more it will sink into people to help them the better understand it. But again, my response would be it aligns with what you're saying. We're probably saying it just a little bit different, to really focus in on what you are gifted at, what you have been blessed to really give the world and really focus, you're accentuating your strengths, but at the same time, you're working on developing and getting very better in those areas of development. And if we can focus on that and learn the importance from that, that's a good step forward. But again, most people, the overwhelming majority of people spend time comparing themselves to others, and that's where the jealousy piece comes in.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

Yeah. And

Books Tools And Final Takeaways

SPEAKER_00 24:26

so if we now focus on leadership and what you do, you know, given the 24 books, you're not going to touch on all of them, but share with us a couple of the titles. Like for beginning leaders, middle of the road in advance, talk to us about how your books interwine with the leadership lessons of the day.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

Yeah, the the books are really written such that those that want to move into a leadership role can practices, principles, and strategies. Those that have been leading others for just a little bit of time, one to five years, want to learn more. And we have the tools and the nuggets and the tips to really help them to get to their next level of responsibility. Here's the key group that is really, really interesting in this leadership journey, and that's the mid-level leader. The mid-level leaders typically have been leading other people somewhere between six to 15 years. They've been doing it long enough now to know that number one, they want to continue to move forward because they enjoy it, or number two, they've had enough. They're fed up. I don't want any more, I want out. Leading people is hard. And so helping them to understand the nuances of what leadership is all about, because they're all trying to decide do they straddle one one way or the other. And then they're the senior levels. They've been at it for a good little while. They may not necessarily be at the C-suite, but many of them are. But they need to be reminded now that personal and professional growth really never ends because even though they're at the senior level, at some point they will retire and move into something else. Retirement is just transition. Not very many people go home and sit on the couch. You're going to do something. And so we feel that based upon the way that the books are written, they cater to each of those different areas, whether it's coaching, whether it's understanding the leadership assessments, whether it's dealing with difficult people, how to communicate effectively, how do you deal with conflict? Because you're going to have differences of opinion when you're dealing with people. So how do you handle that? And a plethora of other topics that leaders need to be aware of.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

I find that to be really well said. Leadership is hard. Being a follower is hard. Life is hard. So I'm a huge fan of daily to-dos, staying away as much as we can from the negative, communicate positive, start a day with gratitude, train the brain for the things that we care about and where we want to go. And if we don't know, we hire people like Kevin Wayne Johnson and his team to help us get there. Because not only you're a leadership coach, but you're an executive coach. You're you're just someone who cares, which is from talking to you how you grew up, how your family is, how your way of being is.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

Yeah, I mean, it's just it's just a matter of just reaching out to people and just helping people to be the best that they can be. We all need help. And as you know, Chad, there are people within our sphere of influence that don't think they need any help. They don't think they need a mentor or a coach. And that's just not the case. And if we can convince them to bring a coach and a mentor into their lives, they see that the proof is in the pudding. They have they have great testimonies. If only I had known 10 years earlier. Well, it's never too late. You know, bring that person into your life now because they will add value to your life for sure.

unknown 28:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

Which is why, as an example, I have the mastermind groups and I have networking groups, and you could find me on LinkedIn. Kevin, I actually reached out to you to connect, and I'm a big user of LinkedIn because it's the place where we could connect and we could learn and share about business insights. It's a different platform than Instagram or Facebook when it comes to professional insights and connecting with other professionals. So I'm a huge fan of that. If anybody wants to reach out to Wayne, I mean Kevin Wayne Johnson or myself, we have Kevin's email below at the Johnson Leadership Group or Kevin at the johnsonleadershipgroup.com. And we're here because we want to be able to share with you insights and wisdom to help you get to the next level, right?

SPEAKER_01 29:07

Absolutely. That's it. Next level. Because it's always better to be prepared and not have an opportunity than it is to have an opportunity and not be prepared. Let that sink in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:20

And and and we are going to let that sink in. And again, thank you very much. I look forward to more opportunities of interacting with you and to watch more and more people that you're able to help. And really, just a really fun interaction. I really appreciate that. And and thank you for your time with me here. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you.