Why Leadership Becomes Legacy

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Leadership Insights at Co-Fanancial Group. I'm your host, Chad Coe. Success in leadership isn't just about the decisions we make today, it's about the legacy we build for tomorrow. On this show, we talk about the people to the people from around the country who are open to sharing their wisdom and insights to help us be better. Andy Nealy, do you remember the worst leader you ever worked with? He says he does. More than two decades ago, he worked for a leader who lacked empathy, direction, integrity, experience that sparked his passion for understanding what makes great leadership. His doctoral research focused on the personal side of leadership, and he's really in his writings, which includes the Golden Principles, Life and Leadership Lessons from a Rescue Dog, explores how patience, empathy, and trust create lasting impact. Today, through his writing, speaking, coaching leaders from around the world, he's helped others embrace transformational, people-first leadership. And after millions of miles, thousands of leaders, and hundreds of stories, he remains convinced that the leadership is personal. Love earns trust, time builds momentum, and leadership is ultimately about serving others. I am thrilled to be here today and to be able to talk to you, Andy, because I know that more than half of the audience loves dogs, and I know you do too. Thank you for being here today.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

My pleasure. And you made me sound a whole lot more important than I am. Can I get a copy of that intro? I may need to read that to myself a time or two when I'm feeling down a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

I would love you to be able to have it, and we're going to make sure that we get it for you. As we sit here.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

Yeah,

Bad Bosses And The Wake-Up Call

SPEAKER_00 2:51

yeah. So it wasn't even career. This was like working my way through college, Chad. I I was on a construction crew and and our crew boss had an anger management issue. And if if you were within six feet of him and he had a power tool in his hand, you just you better be careful, right? And and and there's a a bit of a further backstory. I became a follower of Christ early in my youth. I don't come from a church tome, but I'm from the south side of Chicago and and met the Lord at a summer camp in in Michigan. So I'm reading the gospel stories about this wonderful servant leader. And then I'm going to work for a guy that can't control his temper. And it wasn't just him. It was, uh I worked for a boss at one point that it wasn't an anger management. He just he just took all the credit to himself. He always made himself the star. It didn't matter what his team members did. He was the one that shined in front of the clients or in front of the senior execs. And you know, I see you nodding, Chad. You and I both know that's not the way it's supposed to be. That kind of awakened in me a passion around nobody should work for a bad boss. Nobody should work for a bad boss.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

So, so, so over 70% of our audience has a bad boss. They work in a company, they're underpaid, they're overworked, they're struggling, they didn't know what it's like to grow up on the south side of Chicago and to have to go to schools and be uncomfortable with everywhere you've been. But you figured out how to turn your life around so that you could help and turn other people's lives around. So the other thing you said, and I want to get back to the miles in a minute, but you have a you wrote a doctoral. You're actually an overachieved uh student and researcher.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

Well, well, it I mean, it once again, you're giving me more credit than I deserve. I think I've backed into most of the things I've done. Chad, you would find out if you pursued your doctorate that there's a certain amount of coursework, and then you have 10 years to do your dissertation. There's a whole bunch of people out there that are technically A B D, all but dissertation. I was one of those for nine years. If it wasn't for a good wife that kept kicking me out of the house to a coffee shop and an advisor at the graduate school that kept pushing me on, I would probably have eclipsed the 10-year stretch. But I ended up, I I'm just I'm passionate about what makes a person a good enough person that they would become a good leader and people would choose to follow them. That's really was my area of study.

What Rescue Dogs Teach Leaders

SPEAKER_00 5:30

And you know, the whole irony of it, Chad, you and I, before you you turned the camera on, we we talked about dogs, and and I've learned more lessons about good leadership from rescuing, you know, wounded-hearted, broken, abandoned puppy mill dogs, probably than all of my dissertation readings.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

So you have you've rescued, you said, 15 to 17 dogs over the years?

SPEAKER_00 5:52

15 dogs and three cats over the years, not all at once, but uh over the years of our our marriage. And traveler is kind of the classic example. He he was just found out on the streets, he was malnourished and didn't have any tags on him or anything. And today he sleeps at the foot of our king bed and jumps up on the day bed when I'm working from the home office.

SPEAKER_01 6:11

So so so, you know, dogs are our best friend because dogs are patient, they're kind, they lick us, they look in our eyes, they stare, they they they're not thinking about what they're gonna say next.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

But they're just there. But that's not always the case. We've rescued some dogs that came from horrible situations. And and Chad, you mentioned my book, the The Golden Principles, this little Amazon bestseller, came out of me telling some dog stories. And and and the dog that's on the cover of the book, Redford, he was a puppy mill breeding sire, horribly abused and neglected, urinated the first time I looked at him, wouldn't make eye contact with me for months. I had to learn a new way to reach him. Simple principles, getting getting down to his level, learning that a good yes is always better than a reactive no, understanding that trust is going to take time. Again, I see you nodding your head again. These aren't just dog lessons, these are leadership lessons, aren't they? And and so I was I was doing a presentation on this story of Redford, and a and a small book publisher out of New York was at this conference, and he said, You got any other dog stories? And I said, Man, I've learned more for my dogs than my 25,000 pages of dissertation reading. And a year later, the golden principles came out.

Micromanagement And Letting Go

SPEAKER_01 7:37

So, with the golden principles, before we get there, so now you decide to be a leadership coach and you have a leadership company. Who's hiring you? You said Chuck in a truck, which I just love, who now has 50 trucks.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:51

You know, which is worse, an angry leader manager or a micromanager?

SPEAKER_00 8:00

Man, that's a question. If you and I could figure out the answer and write that book, we could both retire, probably. My my experience is micromanagers haven't learned the difference between leadership and management yet. Now, leadership is not laissez-faire. You leaders need to see everything, they just don't need to say everything. And in my experience, micromanagers are always dialing the dials that they should train their people to dial, and they need to let go. And again, I see you not. You and I both know at times if I turn over responsibility, somebody might fail under my watch. That's the risk of leadership. I've got to be training, I've got to be encouraging, I've got to be equipping them. I also have to expect that, you know what, they only may do 95% of what I would have been doing myself. But if I can get two people, each doing the 95%, all of a sudden I'm doing 190%, way more than I could have accomplished. So there's risk involved in taking your hands off the dials. There's also the opportunity for growth and and you know, increased influence.

Servant Leadership Over Status

SPEAKER_01 9:10

So as I talked to you about leadership, there's a meme out there that I saw where the guy's up against his Maserati and he looks to his employer who drove up and said, Hey, Bill, it's really great to see you. And Bill said, Look at my Maserati. You worked so hard and made me so much money. This is what I bought myself. And if you do the same thing next year, I'm gonna buy myself a new one.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

Ah, I think this is probably why you and I find passion around doing this type of podcast together, right? There, they're in the 2020s, there is this horrible misunderstanding that celebrity influences is is leadership. It's it's not leadership, right? We leaders should be at the bottom of the pyramid, not at the top of the pyramid. And do you ultimately maybe get that Maserati? Maybe, but first you ought to be making sure every person that works for you's got a really nice car that gets them where they need to go. You know, and I'm there's a balance, there's a tension here, right, Chad. I I'm not one of these everybody should be great. Leaders need to make hard decisions. You and I've had to fire people. We've had to hold people to plan, we've had to point out the KPIs that weren't being met. That's why leadership is hard, right? But it's it's hard because a true leader is committed to as much as they're able, they're going to grow their people as well as their bottom line. And and that tension is a is a hard to manage tension. And I only know about it because I've made so many dadgum mistakes. I've kept people on too long, I fired people too soon. I thought I was being strategic when I was being foolish, and you know, it's just expensive after a while, leaders. I had an early mentor of mine say, if you're gonna be in leadership, expect to be taken advantage of. And I think there's some truth to that.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

So behind my shoulder, I have a blown-up framed picture of John Wooden, which is the pyramid on leadership. And at the top of it, it has faith and patience, and it just works. Go back to, if you will, the idea that you've traveled as much as you have. So in in the world of Zoom, does that travel you a lot of you work on Zoom now? Yeah, or are you traveling just around the country?

SPEAKER_00 11:35

No, I'm traveling around the world. I was I live in in Texas. I was in South Africa last week working with a Christian nonprofit organization. But you're right, Chad, most of those miles were like in the early 2000s, maybe 2000 to 2015, before virtual capacities were really there. And and I was doing at that point a lot more uh Fortune 500 work, training and consulting. And as I said today, I'm I'm really passionate about working with small business owners and privately held companies. They don't have the access to the resources that the that the F500 have. So not traveling as much, although you know, still well over 100,000 miles a year, probably.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Okay.

Starting With The Mirror And Assessments

SPEAKER_01 12:21

So now you're walking into a company, it's the first day, the CEO brings you in, they have 100 employees. What are the first couple lessons? And maybe it takes us to our next slide, where you'll never be a better leader than you are as a person. So maybe we just touch on this. What is it like to now go out there and be an early teacher or sharer to these leaders who want to be in a better place?

SPEAKER_00 12:47

Yeah. Well, first of all, I just think we know we both need to acknowledge, man, you get past Jesus Christ and Marcus Aurelius. Last 2,000 years, there's really nothing new in leadership. So I don't show up with any brand new insights. John Maxwell, Patrick Lancioni, Simon Sinek, a host of other people. But typically, when I get to work with an organization, the way I want to work with an organization, we start by holding up the mirror. Oftentimes companies have their own internal 360 evaluations. I partner with Wiley on their disk suite of assessments and particularly use the work of leader assessment. And then I've just got some, you know, self-reflective questionnaires and 360 questionnaires. You're trying to get a pulse of who are the real leaders? You can have the title manager. That doesn't mean you're a leader. They're not in opposition, but but do you know what a high achieving leader looks like? And so we start by having them hold up the mirror with me, and then and then we just cover some fundamental ground about conviction and competence and character and covenant, the underlying elements, uh, a simple model that I think makes a robust leader. And we we work on that together over time. And, you know, some leaders I think I'm very successful with, and other leaders, you know, they just want to get the Maserati in the driveway, like you said. And they and I aren't aren't on the same page. And so I don't get asked back for year two renewal at times.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

But let's talk about year one and let's talk about the leader that that that shifts or changes, right?

The Four C Model For Growth

SPEAKER_01 14:19

What kind of demeanor does the leader have? So let's say they have an anger management or they're a micromanager. You get brought in, you're sitting with them, but they know they want to change because what they're doing isn't working for them. So take me through the process of how you see them shift. How long does it take? How many hours? And by the way, when you leave, do they go back to the way they were?

unknown 14:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

Or do they stay in the new in the new thing?

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Yeah. The answer is probably yes to both of those. I there are some folks that that I know. The Lord has privileged me to walk alongside them, and they've decided to change the trajectory of their career and really their life because of the conversations we've had, the training I've been able to give them. There's a lot of other people that, oh, that was nice, Dr. Andy, and I'm glad we brought you in for this quarter. You had some good insights, and then they move on. When I get to work with a developing leader, the way I love to work with a developing leader, you know, they hold up the mirror. We have a series of good conversations. We get this simple framework. I call it the Ford Leadership Necessities, Conviction, Competence, Character, and Covenant. And we do a deep dive into each one of these areas. They set some growth goals for themselves. They ask me to hold them accountable to those growth goals. And we do regular check-ins on how are you doing on conviction, on becoming a bigger, broader, and further thinking person, really the visionary side of leadership. On the competent side, how are you helping the team members around you execute better? What skills are you investing? What equipment and tool are you giving? The character piece that you and I resonate on so easily are people increasingly seeing you as fair-minded and other-oriented and self-sacrificial? Are you not driving the Maserati? Are you doing what Simon Sinek said in his book, Leaders Eat Last? Are you making sure your people have what they need before you have what you need? And then the last one, and really in some respects, the graduation ceremony, if you would, with the work that I get to do with leaders, it's this concept of leadership covenant, Chad. And you know, in the state of Illinois where you're at, the best example of what a covenant is, both a formal and a personal recognition, is the marriage certificate. Somebody gets married and they're entering into a marriage covenant. It's love and affection till death do his part and all the romantic side. Somebody gets married in the state of Illinois. There's also a legal document that some officiant signs and records with the county clerk or the secretary of state, there's both a personal and a formal side of that leadership. The best leaders I work with wrestle with how do I invest in my people and make sure we hit our KPIs this quarter? It's a it's an ongoing tension that if you're if you're striving to become a high achieving, up and to the right kind of leader, you you wrestle with the tension of of those two things all the time.

SPEAKER_01 17:24

So I love where you're going with this. So as leaders become better, do you ever talk to them about becoming award-winning leaders? Or, like you said, that the leader should be at the bottom of the pyramid. How did you come up with that concept? Because to me, you know, leaders need to be up here and then they hire so that everyone that's below them is kind of like as solid of a human being as they are.

SPEAKER_00 17:48

Yeah, yeah. Well, it in some respects, you know, makes me think of John Wooden's pyramid and takes us back. Robert Greenleaf wrote the book, Servant Leadership, I think at this point, more than 40 years ago. And he identified some of these characteristics of effective leaders. I choose my words carefully. I call the type of leader you and I are talking about a high achieving leader. In fact, I don't call them an award-winning leader. I don't even call them a high performing leader because the high achieving leader realizes it's not about my performance. It's about me helping my team members perform as well as they can. Do awards come? Yeah, I work a lot with sales teams. And if that high achieving regional sales manager gets her or his team all row in the right direction and closing more business, they're up on stage at the annual meeting. So there are some awards, but they're not working for the awards. Right. They're working to fulfill this covenant that you and I've talked about. I got to push the business really hard and I got to take care of my people. And and and they they they work on that hard.

Meet People Where They Are

SPEAKER_01 18:57

So show your book again, if you will. So you've taken the time, you've written this book. It's a beautiful book. It's the golden principles. And inside of there, given that you've worked as hard as you have and written a thesis that's a doctoral that's like very long, you've taken the very best of, right? So in that book, what are some of the highlights that you would want to share?

SPEAKER_00 19:19

Well, first of all, I have to tell you, this is Redford. This is the dog that came from the horrible puppy mill in Arkansas. He was one of 65 dogs that were rescued and distributed all over the country. My wife was plugged into some of the local rescue groups here in Central Texas. And so we ended up with Redford, and I was telling his story, and this publisher said, Hey, if we turn this into a book, let's rename it the Golden Principles because of the Golden Rule and all of that. And we've mainly rescued golden retrievers. And then there's just 10 chapters, and I've already alluded to a few of those chapters. One of the chapters is you got to get down to their level. And I just tell a really bad story about myself. I got home late from a training engagement with some client, caught the last flight out, walked in the house well after midnight, dropped my suitcase in my backpack and said, I'm home, and expected everybody to come running to me because I just, you know, made another payday, and Redford went running the other way. And it's because I was loud in the dark. And and, you know, I just over time had to figure out, man, I I can't I can't do that with Redford. That what I need to do, and you know, Chad, I I got a big ego, but the truth of the matter is I would get home, I'd walk quietly in, I'd get down on my hands and knees and do a human version of a play bow, one of those low-down squats that a dog does, and I'd call Redford quietly. And over time, he learned to come to me. And so, so there's a principle there, Chad. You and me, as we lead our organizations, we need to meet our people where they're at before we can take them where we know they need to go.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

And so Yeah, they might not even know they need to go there. That's what I have learned. The way that I grew up is I was with a lot of really quality, excellent people, both at every tier of life. And I find that when you could take, like as an example, when you can take ego and and attitude out of the equation, I love the word mentor. So in my first book, The Power of People Tising, it's about thoughtful, caring, sharing. And if you're if you're that guy, then mentor people that are below you.

unknown 21:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

But everyone needs to work together, and everyone is worth having a conversation with. And for me personally, my wife laughs maybe a little bit, but I carry five dollar bills like like candy, and I just pass them out to the person that goes a little bit above and beyond because the reason you go back to a restaurant is not for the server. You go back because of the guy that keeps filling your water glass, yeah, and taking the plates off your table.

unknown 21:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

And then and then he runs. Like he doesn't even walk in the restaurant. They're running.

unknown 21:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

And I love to slide them a five-dollar bill just to say thank you.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

Yeah, yeah. They are underappreciated at times. And that's that's where I think, you know, the the good leaders that I get to work with, their people are better for the time that they spent with those leaders. Does the leader win the award? Yeah, at times, as we talked about, but that's not what it's about for the leader. It's it's their their people are getting more competent. Their people are getting more fiscally fit, their people are getting better at their jobs. And you know, as a result, my wife and I own some retail businesses here in Central Texas for over 15 years. And and man, I in a retail environment, I had people that came and stayed for the whole 15 years. And I didn't realize that's very, very rare in the retail world. Well, I wasn't a great boss, but I was trying to practice some of the very principles you and I are talking about. And people are drawn to that.

SPEAKER_01 22:55

Well, people are drawn to your energy, right? The energy that you have is exuberant in that we're changing lives, we're enhancing lives, we're giving people the messaging to be able to have a great life. Yeah. You've never you've mentioned three or four or five great leaders that have written books or communicated in the world, including yours.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

Yeah, yeah. Well, mine's mine's a simple little kind of chicken soup for the soul book, but but you know, we all love dogs, and so so there's a natural connection point. And and there's some cat stories in there as well, but but we we can learn a lot from how the animal kingdom interacts with one another.

Retention And Culture As Leadership Signals

SPEAKER_01 23:35

So when you're out there trying to get business and you're talking to the CEO or president, what are some of the initial conversations you're having with them? What are their concerns? Yeah, and what are they asking you to bring to the table?

unknown 23:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

Well, at times they don't realize it's a leadership issue. They're frustrated with employee turnover and staff retention. They're frustrated with customer service scores that are not as high as other portions of the business, the NPS measurement tool that you and I are fulfilling. What they don't understand is leadership dribbles down and and employee retention goes up, employee recruitment gets stronger, customer service scores get higher. When when leaders get healthier, everybody grows. And so I'm not allowed to come into an organization and say, man, you guys are messed up as leaders. I'm gonna fix you as leaders. Where we really start is how do we address employee retention? And how do we make sure the senior leadership team is doing the best job it can to find the right people, recruit the right people, and then keep the right people? And that, you know, those two metrics, customer service scores and employee retention, really, those are both symptoms of leadership. There's other complications, right? The markets are hard these days, and and you know, tariffs and international and the advent of AI, but there's underlying themes. When I see employee turnover, you know, as high as 60% or more in some companies and customer service scores in the you know, teens for the NPS measurement, I know there's leadership issues as well.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

And so do you feel like the employees have no one to turn to? They're talking behind the scenes to themselves and they're just struggling emotionally and mentally. Why, why do you think leaders are okay with that?

SPEAKER_00 25:32

Well, I mean, here's where let's let's define what we're talking about. I will say leaders are not okay with that. Managers might be okay with that.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

Gee, that's a bullseye right there.

SPEAKER_00 25:42

Yeah, but but if somebody, and you know, none of us ever arrive. That's why I say we're on the process of becoming a high achieving leader, but but you know, leaders, and the interesting thing, again, Chad, you and I could share stories with your your listeners all day long. I will maintain the people at the top of the org chart don't create culture inside a company. They'd like to think they create culture, they create context where culture is created by the team itself. It's it's oh, I I heard a great consultant, Stan Slap out of the West Coast, say, where real culture starts is not the 90 minutes in the CEO's office for the new hire. It's when the new hire walks out of the CEO's office and somebody leans back from a cube and says, Hey, new guy, come here, let me tell you what it's really like. That's where culture gets built, and that's built on what the leader expects and reinforces and creates. But it's the team that builds culture.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

Right. And and again, if they're talking bad about the company right away, then that gets passed down. If they're talking positive, now you want to go there and you want to be part of something bigger. And I just love that. Like, as an example, some retail companies don't pay commission, they just pay their employees a fair salary, a little bit above minimum, but they're loyal, and the customers are loyal because they're not feeling sold. They feel the energy of positivity without the energy of being sold, yeah, which nobody wants to be.

SPEAKER_00 27:13

Yeah, yeah, exactly right.

Motivation Is Personal Not One-Size

SPEAKER_00 27:15

And you know, oftentimes it's not just monetary compensation. What, you know, what do people really need? And that's part of the leader's job is to find out, you know, that one person that loves recognition, man, when they hit it out of the park, you put them up in front of the whole team and let them tell their story. That introvert on your team, if you say, Hey, Andy, would you stand up Monday morning at our team meeting and tell everybody what you did? It's gonna ruin their weekend. What you do for that person because you know them better is give them an extra PTO day or whatever. It it's it's not just increase my pay or give me a better bonus. It's get to know me well enough that you know what's important to me. And and meeting them where they're at. Yeah. Yeah. That's that. Redford, get down to their level and do a playbow lesson that my uh my wounded-hearted dog taught me. I I absolutely love that.

SPEAKER_01 28:11

We could go on for probably another half hour or so. I love leadership talk, but I also think that I love you for the way that you're addressing leader conversation and helping inspire better managers, better employees, and a better all-around business environment. So, Andy,

How To Connect With Andy

SPEAKER_01 28:28

share with people, if you will, the best way for them to find you.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

Well, simply Neely Leadership, and you've got it spelled correctly. I have a challenging last name, but neelyleadership.com. And in fact, I've got a link at the top of my website. Somebody just wants to grab 15 minutes. I love to talk to people about leadership development stuff. They can just sign up on my calendar for a you know, 15-minute conversation. The other thing I probably should mention to the folks that are dialed into you, my business coach a couple years ago said, Andy, put together some of your stuff. I've got the three imperative leadership conversations, an eight-page ebook about holding the hard conversation. That'd be a good thing for you and me to jump on another podcast and talk about holding the coaching conversation and holding the threefold affirmation conversation, three conversations that every leader should be engaging in with their team members regularly. That ebook is available simply at leadershipmaterials.com. Leadershipmaterials.com.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

I love that. We're gonna go, we're gonna go look at that ourselves. I love the idea of affirmations, manifestation, and creating what you want because you have a plan. So that takes me to co-financial group, where we do the abundant life roadmap, which talks about and focuses on your values, your goals, and then creates a plan to help you achieve your goals. And I think I think everybody needs a goal. Everyone needs a plan, everybody needs to be able to manifest and have affirmations. So I think I'm right aligned with everything that you're talking about. Thank you so much, Jenny, for being in the show. And I look forward to talking with you again.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

My pleasure. Thanks, Chad. Thank you.